Floating Trees - #media-discussion

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenAgeMinecraft/comments/1nrt1d4/the_oldest_mcpe_map_ever_lost_though_time_read/

uh what is the use of this channel that isn't covered by either <#1497336854712684595> or <#1497337888994496814>

projects is a forum channel so you have to commit to making a whole new thread when you want to bring up a new topic

archival discussion is busy with lots of talk about the project in general and may not be good for posting specific things to archive

fine

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenAgeMinecraft/comments/1n722rv/which_pc_gamer_demo_is_considered_well_better/ apparently there is a rare variant of the pc gamer demo disc which suggests a chance of a rare variant of the demo itself

I own most of the PC Gamer stuff. There's 2 discs that focus on Minecraft (the ones in the pictures). I believe the difference is regional. Maybe Canada vs US or North America vs European. I forget which. That discs are from June 2011. The next few months had Minecraft on the discs as well, but it wasn't the primary focus. Everything should be on Internet Archive.

The demo on all discs are identical.

I forget if all of them had it, but at least some of the discs had the PC Gamer server world file on it. Also on IA, if needed.

https://archive.org/details/PC_Gamer_CD-ROMs_2011 if this is it, it doesn't exist anymore

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenAgeMinecraft/comments/180m7tv/wow_after_years_of_searching_i_finally_found_a/ demo discs have absurdly inflated resale values

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenAgeMinecraft/comments/1sdzc32/i_finally_found_a_mod_that_brings_beta_lighting/

https://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeast/comments/1rc0rax/working_on_a_massive_space_mod_multiple_star/

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenAgeMinecraft/comments/1nlgrnj/every_single_minecraft_edition_and_its_physical/

apparently minecraftmods.com now just redirects to minecraftskins.net

it wasn't a HUGE minecraft mods website but it was pretty big and was around for a long time

Dead German Minecraft site https://cp.craftno.de/

idk what this site was about but that is a really bad URL for your website to have

germans

checkpoint, copy

why is ppls first thought not the `cp` unix command smh

creator points

"craftno" suggests no crafting allowed

https://minecraft-merch.com/ I'd like it if someone could scrape all the merchandise images from this site so they can be mass uploaded elsewhere (like to the minecraft wiki) it's several years out of date but it contains over 3000 images of minecraft merchandise so it would be useful to have these for documentation purposes

doing so rn

when it's done you should share it on the minecraft wiki discord server so someone can upload the images considering how many there are it would probably be best for an admin or one of their bot accounts to actually do the uploading

did it finish

yes but I need to sort the images out

which I will do after I sleep

ok

the images are in an annoying ass structure and I also had an annoying bug in my code and ALSO I had issues with dependencies so yeah you'll need to be a bit patient

here's a funny diff tho

"Fix code" "Code now working" "Final fix" "Final fix for good" "Final fix i swear" "AAAAAAAAAAAAA" "I give up"

done

sent the link to the wiki Discord if you didn't notice (you probably did)

are you sure you got all of them?

not 100% *sure* but *pretty sure* I might have messed something up, but like, I'm pretty confident I didn't

it's just that there are 3051 images in the folder but if you add up all the different merchandise items on the website its 3448 (and many items have more than one image)

so there should be a lot more images in the download than there are

hmm

what probably happened is it skipped images with duplicate file names or something

I mean, yes, that's something I specifically did

if there are duplicate file names that are different images, uh, yeah, that'd be a tough one

the problem is if I don't do this, there will be 5 images per image

4 having lower than expected quality

some of the images are already kind of low quality I think the download may have just grabbed low quality thumbnails instead of the full-sized image in some cases

I'll try making the sorting script smarter

I specifically wrote the script to choose the highest quality, but maybe I'm missing something

thanks for the report

I'll try to fix it

what if a bunch of them are named image.png or some shit

I noticed that the names are (mostly, apparently) unique

which is why I did that

some might be downloads or copy pasted from somewhere else so it doesn't necessarily hold for them all

as a sanity check, I confirmed that there is only one image with a name that doesn't contain at least one uppercase letter, one lowercase letter and one `-`

which means all of them are well named

interesting

so yeah, no, but apparently these good names might be duplicated regardless

Are you deduplicating based on the name of the image itself or the full url path of the image as it would be in a http request?

only the name, but the precise change I'm making now is to check all the previous parts as well

it's probably stupid of me to assume the names won't repeat, but well, they were nice unique-seeming names

and I also wanted to tick that off my to-do list

(feel free to laugh)

Yeah, that was going to be my recommendation. I wrote a tool that mirrors the content of another Minecraft related project, and it takes into account the full url of all media being downloaded. It takes the full url of a resource and performs a sha256 hash on it, and stores the media in a specific directory. That way before it performs any request for future media, it hashes the url again and checks the media directory to see if the content was already downloaded.

if you can find one example of an image that's higher quality on the site than in the download, please point me to it

I tried myself and couldn't

a lot are low res but are also low res on the actual website so idk

yeah they aren't very high quality

but without an example, I have nothing to work with. that part I must assume (for now?) I'm doing correctly.

there are some lego set images that have different sizes

like here's the one you downloaded

here's the actual image from the website

can you link the page?

https://minecraft-merch.com/lego/details/le21138/

a lot of lego images have this problem

there may be others also but the weirdly small image size of a lot of the lego images in the folder is the first problem I noticed

oh yeah, ok, I see the issue now

this should be easy to fix. guess I was confident for nothing.

did you fix it

yeah but now I'm tackling the other issue

there's now 4131 images

so that inspires some more hope

that sounds more correct

https://cloud.stary.pc.pl/s/aj9mNt96AWZkoMY

I'd rather have you see this first in case something is still wrong with it

oh I forgot to remove the non-merch images

that's not a huge issue

I mean they shouldn't be uploaded to the wiki

it's just noise

there's only like 4 of them or so but still

https://cloud.stary.pc.pl/s/yyN4Ft8GpQso8wN fixed

no other changes

<@322172965825413141> ping me when you think it's good to go (or not)

I'll be going to bed but I can send it from there (or make some final adjustments), I'll be reading a book before I sleep so you can probably make it while I'm still conscious

if you find something major well that probably gotta wait

it looks good to me

I think you fixed everything

https://archive.org/details/0x10c-FaceBuilder where would the textures be located in this

actually this whole discord-webviewer thing is a pretty good idea for other things than just this server and Xnoob's unrelated thing

Minecraft Wiki links to Discord messages as sources, since some devs say things on Discord

this could be useful for that kinda thing

this is basically a similar idea to what Xnoob is doing for their thing, but for Minecraft stuff

mainData, though you need to extract it with a tool like https://github.com/AssetRipper/AssetRipper here's a copy of the extracted files

https://discordlogs.floatingtrees.stary.pc.pl/guilds/1497336599120187435.html

yay

by the way <@368475654662127616> you can just use `style="white-space: preserve;"` instead of adding `<br>`s everywhere there is a line break -# oh i just realised this is not really the right channel for this, sorry

<@322172965825413141> are we sure anything besides Notch's and Dylan's perspective existed? [[Mojang vs Team Avolition Quake match]]

<https://wiki.floatingtrees.stary.pc.pl/wiki/Mojang_vs_Team_Avolition_Quake_match>

oh this is from [[lmw:Mojang Quake Match (lost livestream; 2012)]]

<https://lostmediawiki.com/Mojang_Quake_Match_(lost_livestream;_2012)>

huh

they do have a link that doesn't work, but also

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/38469359 this totally exists

https://web.archive.org/web/20120628030544/http://www.twitch.tv/notch/b/315934094 this is the one they have

oh this embed is actually useful lol

the one that exists is 2012-04-23 18:35:42 UTC

idk what timezone *this* is

I have no idea, so I just noted that I have no idea on the wiki

the page was made by "The roblox player 2" who has no user page

so can't contact them for info

at some point we should do a scrape of the official minecraft feedback server for archival purposes in the event there is some kind of weird fuckery that takes it down in the future it would be useful to have all the text saved somewhere else

I could pretty much do that now, though scraping threads (and there's A LOT of threads) is more ratelimited on users than bots sadly

so it will probably take a year or something with how many threads there are

maybe not but idk

it would probably be faster to just scrape posts and not comments

tbh most comments in that server are not valuable

either way you could just scrape posts without comments first to see how long it takes

probably by a tiny margin, the slow part is asking Discord for the thread list, it's fast to actually download messages after that

like you can download a few hundred messages in seconds, but you could probably only request a few threads in that time

anyways I'm gonna try and see if it makes sense

you could try doing just the threads in one channel first to see how long it takes before moving on to others

(and also you should finish the remaining four mojam game minecraft wiki pages https://minecraft.wiki/w/Category:Mojam_games)

yeah ik ik

it's high on my todo list

I have calculated getting one thread takes at least 0.4s due to the ratelimiting

I'm running this on a single channel now and it sure is taking a while

I don't think Discord has a thread counter for forums or anything, <@322172965825413141> any guesses on how many threads there could be in a single channel?

highly variable depending on the channel

I'm doing the biomes one rn

idk maybe around 1000-2000 threads in that one

it's one of the more high-activity channels but less so than a few others

that's only a guess though and it could be way off in either direction

this should is doable then

*also* you get the first 100 messages for free for each thread

so if a given thread has 100 or less messages (including the original post), which I think will be most of them, the "tiny margin" is equal to 0

ok well. transfering more data takes more time. but at that point we're talking milliseconds per thread.

"Ghasts shouldn't smile and shouldn't wear goggles." lmao

(I have basic logging set up and it lists each thread it downloads, this one caught my eye)

is upvote count also being saved?

yes

though not specific users who upvoted as I haven't implemented that yet

(it would also slow down the download by quite a bit, as it needs at least one more request per thread)

I don't think that part is very important the total number of upvotes is useful though because it allows viewers to isolate the actually good ideas that were voted for by more than 1 or 2 people

took 24:07 minutes

not bad

yeah at that speed you could probably download the whole server in a few hours

If you're only capturing responses from discord it doesn't take very long to get data from a relatively large discord server. Media is what will take the longest - as one might imagine. In a non Minecraft server that I'm in, that contains roughly a decades worth of information, it takes about 2 days to get everything.

amount of uploads is minimal in that server

are they even enabled

the feedback server doesn't have a lot of images because their automoderation bots are extremely paranoid for a long time it didn't even _allow_ image uploads, now it does but they are barely used

there are kind of a lot of embedded images from image links but those can be obtained later and separately

/r/MinecraftSuggestions would likely have more interesting information from a historical standpoint. As well as the offical feedback page.

this server is the *actual* official place for feedback

like the official feedback page is almost completely broken

and I don't know if Mojangsta even visit the subreddit

They did a long time ago. Which was my point about historical information.

ok, yeah, true I guess

it's been around for a long time

As for the website, you could just scrape the endpoints, store the responses, and build a frontend for the data.

IIRC it's just servicedesk.

definitely all three places should be archived, yeah

the sub is probably (definitely) already archived in more than one complete reddit archives, though maybe without media

the site might be partially saved at Wayback, but a complete scrape would be better

Media is not kept in the reddit archives, but they do link to media which could be downloaded.

so we'd just need to download some links, rather than scrape reddit itself

Example of something I've been working on.

I have scraped reddit previously (I mean, select subs, not the whole thing), but that was when the official API was something that existed lol

the feedback server actually has a lot of media, I already got 22 GiB of it the problem is most of it is garbage/duplicates of some promotional images??

where does this even come from, clearly not the suggestions

I would guess probably some separate channel for promotions

anyways this was finished yesterday

it did take a while

had to retry a few times too because I didn't handle some apparently somewhat-conmon errors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CN7jfhlamw seemingly lost texture pack ("buttercraft") first known version: beta 1.4 last known version: release 1.2 found this channel as a kid looking for redstone tutorials

would you like to make a page about it on the wiki? [[FTW:Making a page]]

<https://wiki.floatingtrees.stary.pc.pl/wiki/Floating_Trees_Wiki:Making_a_page>

I looked into this but could only find other unreleted texture packs with the same name that were made later and were more obviously butter-themed

I checked on chomikuj but it's not there :p

also while the person's website is archived on Wayback, I can't see any links to the pack

well, I assume they are the one who made it, because my German level is "ich habe acht Apfel" and I'm not even sure that is correct

oh yeah some other videos have it linked in the description, and somehow the adfly link even works, but the actual download is dead

there's also a dead MCF thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1566027-144-butt4cak3s-texture-pack-buttercraft/

yes they made it

I found multiple links of different versions all of which are dead and none are archived

also first I will try to contact the texture pack creator (I found his steam account which is still active)

how many minecraft earth versions are accounted for? in particular the closed beta versions that could only be downloaded in a few countries

WIP Index is correct

39 versions

no idea if any of them are pre-release, but I assume not, so that'd be uncharted territory

yeah but are all of the closed beta versions actually found (including android/IOS/whatever variants)

ok so going by the timeline laid out on [[mcw:Minecraft Earth]] we have everything from the first closed beta in terms of Android

<https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Earth>

I don't actually know the situation on iOS (I have no iOS versions in my archive), but seemingly it's only archived starting from the first early access version

the closed beta being not archived at all

there are only iOS and Android variants, so that'd be everything

https://archive.org/details/minecraft-iOS this is made by rufus and it's actually public

and yeah checks out with the index

damn this even has a bunch of versions that are labelled Bedrock Edition lol

I think rufus has said that there's *something* wrong with these dumps and that they need to be redone but I don't know what exactly

I could test if they install properly since iOS 12 is just barely the version I can run on my 5S

also since PE would have the same issues if any I could just install it on the iOS version it's currently on (which is less than 12)

I downloaded a number of Minecraft subs from this reddit archive Purple sent me ``` magnet:?xt=urn:btih:3e3f64dee22dc304cdd2546254ca1f8e8ae542b4&dn=reddit&xl=3965777405390&tr=https%3A%2F%2Facademictorrents.com%2Fannounce.php&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce ``` not sure if there's any specific subs I should download

tl;dr Android yes, iOS no

ok so uh, those are encrypted

in other words, they are useless unless you have the Apple account rufus dumped them with

well not *useless* as you can extract assets n stuff. you can't run them though.

I really must start working on my own iOS archive

(I don't have Minecraft on iOS so I'd need to get that first)

(also that doesn't help with Earth. we need to get rufus to decrypt those asap.)

<@274863638563520512> you're here, so here's a reminder to do this

Bedrock is still downloadable so it's whatever but you should get Earth done

also PE Lite (this is probably out there somewhere but I'd trust it more if you dumped it)

Here's the ones I'm currently doing work with: ``` "Minecraft", "Minecraft_Earth", "Minecraft_Realms", "Minecraft_Survival", "Minecraft2", "Minecraft360", "MinecraftBedrockers", "MinecraftBuddies", "Minecraftbuilds", "MinecraftChampionship", "MinecraftCirclejerk", "minecraftclients", "MinecraftCommands", "MinecraftDungeons", "MinecraftHardcore", "MinecraftHelp", "Minecrafthmmm", "MinecraftInventions", "MinecraftMemes", "MinecraftMod", "MinecraftOne", "MinecraftPE", "MinecraftRealmClub", "minecraftseeds", "MinecraftServer", "MinecraftServerFinder", "MinecraftServerShare", "minecraftshaders", "minecraftskins", "MinecraftSMPs", "MinecraftStoryMode", "minecraftsuggestions", "admincraft", "GoldenAgeMinecraft", "HermitCraft", "mindcrack", "2b2t", "2b2t_Uncensored", "redstone", "CompetitiveMinecraft", "hypixel", "HypixelSkyblock", "CurseForge", "feedthebeast", "Yogscast", "MineZ", "constantiam", "CaptainSparklez", "dreamsmp", "tommyinnit", "Technoblade", "ThirdLifeSMP", "DreamWasTaken", "DreamWasTaken2", "lostmedia", "DataHoarder", "tekkit", "ModdedMinecraft" ```

I'm also working on this, which has been helpful for certain tasks.

cool. source code link or is it currently private?

It's currently private. It's pretty bare bones, but but currently works for my needs. It's just a go program that can compile an sqlite database based on the json data that also acts as a frontend for the database.

Right now the sqlite database is sitting at 27GB with various different indexing methods being used. I might release the frontend at some point when more work is done on it. Database likely won't be shared for various reasons.

I mean, if it can be compiled from the JSONs it's not a big deal

Right, that part is easy. I just mean that I'm not going to create a database and share that for others to download. Others can compile the data they care about and search for whatever they find interesting.

yeah, I meant that it won't be a problem to use the tool without the pregenerated database

do you compress the text in the database btw?

or would that mess with the indexing (you presumably have a full text search index, no idea how those work with sqlite)

No, no compression.

27 GB is pretty small then, I expected it to be more lol

like that's a bunch of subreddits there

sqlites FTS5 wants plain text. Most databases want plain text since they perform various other things on text. You might be able to hook into some callback functions and have it call into decompression function, but I don't think I would bother with that.

Well I'm also only getting that data that I care about. It's not a full 1 to 1 mapping of the source data.

oh, right

I'm sure once I start sourcing more data it would get bigger.

Just to add onto this: A simple example of an issue that someone could run into with redistributing a database with data inside would be with subreddits that have made private. Mindcrack is a recent example where once things got disbanded they shutdown the subreddit.

But the reddit archive does contain the contents up to late 2025.

I mean, yeah, this is technically copyrighted content, and it's one of the things people *might* have a problem with

Among other things, yes.

someone was threatening to take action against Nitter because they proxied (not even archived) their (publicly available) posts. people are like that.

we should probably look for more ads, as those definitely exist

I'm using adblock so I don't get ads at all, but if any of you do, you should get them into <#1500310733643317338>

Google these days has an ads transparency page you can refer to. <https://adstransparency.google.com/?platform=YOUTUBE&domain=minecraft.net&region=anywhere>

I feel stupid because I actually used that before

and didn't think of it

when are they going to add phosphorus cubes

uranium cubes

still this is a lot to go through and I don't have time to do it

if someone else does have time to do it, it would be nice

tbh this might be too much for anyone to handle ever

might be better to automate it

https://www.youtube.com/@manicdiggergame I've found something really interesting basically this dude created an open source clone of minecraft during infdev and while for the most part it basically just copies minecraft as it was at the time it includes rails before rails were actually added to minecraft, which notch apparently just copied

https://github.com/manicdigger/manicdigger it's on github too

https://sourceforge.net/projects/manicdigger/

Project moved to github. <https://github.com/manicdigger>

Still being worked on it seems.

I mean there's not much proof Notch was inspired by MD

and yeah I was surprised this was a thing after you sent that video

it might be the oldest third party client

since it is/was compatible with 0.30 protocol

so kinda like ClassiCube nowadays

last substantial commit is 2017

so not really, but it was developed for a long time

There was a pull request merge late 2024. <https://github.com/manicdigger/manicdigger/commit/0635de1d6d6817c30b74fd2c0399a359009fb9e6> The author seems to be still maintaining it, which was what I was getting at.

I can't think of many clones that have been maintained for that long of a time.

yeah that's why I said "substantial"

but I guess *maintained* up until at least then is right

2017 is the last year it saw *work* done on it

Yeah, that's a better way to word it.

It's pretty cool that it hasn't been abandoned.

is it the same author though

either that or someone officially continuing it

the SF repo links the GitHub one

I could think of many Minecraft related tools that haven't been maintained for as long as manicdigger.

I wonder if it is the longest maintained third party minecraft software

there might be texture packs that are older that still get updates

the vast majority of mods from back then would be obsolete now so it can't be a long list of candidates

another case that comes to mind is the dokucraft texture pack from 2010 which is still being updated as of this year

in that case it's traded hands between multiple lead developers

so the original creator isn't involved

there has to be an oldest third party minecraft software where the original creator still maintains it

To my knowledge PixelMap by McTwist is the oldest Minecraft related software being maintained. <https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/1260565-pixelmap-top-down-mapper>

optifine is also pretty old

WorldEdit is pretty close as well.

Not sure if you would count modding as third party. Guess it would depend on the definition.

what else would it be

fourth party?

When I think third party I think of code that doesn't use Minecraft as the base layer of the software.

I guess? but it still directly interfaces with minecraft software in the case of world edit and custom launchers and stuff so idk

Yeah, I think there would need to be different categories. But for the sake of this discussion we can say third party is anything non vanilla.

something that would be not considered as a library by the GPL? lol

"linkage"

first party software is the stuff mojang distributes to the user second party software is installed instances on the user's device third party software is game modifications and external tools created by people online for others to use fourth party software would be like, software for managing third party software, like mod loaders or mod hosting sites

pretty cool software anyways

the fact the latest version supports all Minecraft versions (Infdev+ that is) especially

I can't find a lot of actual sources regarding an official definition of "fourth-party" but the consensus seems to be that it would most accurately refer to things used to distribute and manage third-party material

Yeah PixelMap is cool. The author is a long timer in the space. Him and I recently met each other in a different discord chat, and he's had some fun things to share as a long timer in this space.

and then anything used for distributing and managing fourth-party material would be considered fifth-party material and so on

so I guess like, web hosting services would be considered 5th party minecraft software

Actually, it looks like unmined beat PixelMap by a number of months. <https://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/mapping-and-modding-java-edition/minecraft-tools/1263598-unmined-2d-mapper-je-be-windows-mac-linux>

I recognize this from themastercaver's forum posts

is it actually still supported

it seems to be

well yeah cause it has hytale support https://unmined.net/

it even supports Hytale

lmao

they should add vintage story support

and manic digger support

Yeah, I was in their discord server recently asking the dev a question.

on March 6, 2015 exe is suddenly replaced by croxxx

who continues the work up to the last version

it's probably the same person

just changing names

you should probably make the archive public and linked somewhere and also update it with some regularity (maybe every month, maybe every 3 months)

re: update, yea re: public, you mean a browser-ized version or the source material?

idk if it's really worthwhile since the server is not going anywhere anytime soon, probably

the source material without attachments is pretty small when compressed though so I could publish that

it's 110 MiB with the filesystem compression I use, it's probably gonna be less if I properly compress it with lzip

also re: update, not sure which would be the best way to go around that. if I do it the way I update the logs we have here, it would not capture new upvotes. starting from scratch each time would be slower, but probably not even that much slower considering the way threads work, but deleted posts would not be archived.

I was thinking to get a better way of updating message data done at some point

just do that first probably

here it is https://download.floatingtrees.stary.pc.pl/minecraft/discord/minecraft_feedback-2026-09-18.tar.lz

it is tiny, just 42 MiB

finally the "failed to open file" file

if you're using 7-zip, this extension should work: https://www.tc4shell.com/en/7zip/lzip/

anything using libarchive (except possibly Windows 11 because their libarchive implementation sucks) should work by default